Date sent: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 13:42:37 -0700 (PDT)

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Roger: >> **Hmm... God was hammering nails into Jesus on the Cross with each spadeful of earth he used to plant the Tree of Knowlege, and Jesus was there watching it happen.** That's a spooky image that I just came up with. That should go into some movie prelude. (This is why I like doing these discussions... this is another new image for me.)

i think the author image works better, the write of book doesn't exist in the books time, but is the creator.

> NO we hammered the nails in god, god didn't nail himself. jesus was NOT WATCHING HE WAS NAILED, HOW CAN I GET YOU OFF THIS ARIAN NOTION THAT JESUS WAS WATCHING.

Well... I wasn't aware this was some "arian notion." As I said, a new image for me. It comes from:

a) God is omniscient.

b) Jesus is part of God.

c) As God is putting the Tree of Knowlege into the Garden, he is aware that Adam and Eve will succumb to the tempation, and he is Jesus as well, so Jesus is just as aware. This is making the Garden of Eden time, not crucifixion time.

It's fairly straightforward. I don't see your problem with it.

Which Arians are we talking about that came up with this notion?

Arian was a person, not a pre-Nazi. he lived at the time of St. Augustine, and argued (exactly as you, and a few since) that Jesus because he was God and existed out of time, was eating baklava and sweet wine while he observed his own cricifiction (like you and popcorn in the movie) and never experienced the pain of his body.

>> Hmm... No, I didn't remember that God is love. Mankind does not know love before Jesus?

>can't there is no mankind before god, god made adam and eve, jesus is god, i thought you got that from the three-in-one alhpa omega, do you need clarification?

Yes, I do.

how can there be man before god if god made man, it is a logical falacy the basic rule is created can't exist without being created.

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